The Thinking Atheist, Robert M. Price interview

On Youtube: The Thinking Atheist 27th November 2013 Robert M. Price made a good summary of the Christ myth theory. He also gave an example of the made up nature of the gospel stories that I hadn't heard before. It was about the differences in the accounts of the people that Peter denied Jesus to. So in fact it would be easy to say Peter denied more than three times.

Mark 14v66 has Peter deny to a servant girl, v69 the servant girl again, v70 those standing near

Matthew 26v69 has Peter deny to a servant girl, v 71 another girl, v73 those standing there

Luke 22v56 has Peter deny to a servant girl, v 58 someone else - to which Peter replies, " Man, I am not " which could imply the question was not asked by a servant girl, v59 another asserted - to which Peter replied, " Man, I am not "

John 18v15 has Peter go with another disciple who knows the high priest, the other disciple goes into the highpriest's courtyard and then has to ask the girls permission to allow Peter in. What did he say to her? " We're disciples of Jesus & friends of the high priest and have permission to enter ? " or " Here's some money, ask no more about it ? "  What if it was the former, " We're disciples of Jesus " and the servant girl at the door v17 double check, " Is that correct, are you really a disciple ?" then you would have the farcical reply from Peter, " No I never knew him " but then the girl would reply, " Well you can't come in then " and Peter would be like, " But if I don't come in how can I fulfill my destiny to deny Jesus 3 times before the cock crows as Jesus predicted " to which the girl would say, " O, so you are a disciple of Jesus then ? " Peter, " No I just know him " Girl, " Well you still can't come in " Peter, " Oh damn it, I retract my denial, I am his disciple ", v25 probably someone else in the courtyard, since it would be reasonable to assume the girl was still on duty at the door, v26 A relative of the man whose ear Peter had cut off, " Didn't I see you in the olive grove ? " - wouldn't it have been more likely, " Weren't you the one who struck my relative Malchus (Jn18v10) with the sword cutting his ear off ? Just as well Jesus healed it back on or i'd be doing a civilian arrest on you "
   Interesting that gospels Mark, Matt & John don't  mention the ear healing. Only Luke 22v51 has Jesus touch Malchus's ear to heal it but v50 had said the ear was cut off, so you would think Jesus would need to bend down and pick up the ear to place it back on the head ?
   Mark 14v48 Has Jesus scolding the arresting party for being armed with swords and clubs but he says no criticism of Peter for cutting of the servants ear.

  How come Mark 14v50 has all the disciples of Jesus " deserted him and fled ", yet Mark 14v 54 has Peter follow Jesus at a distance and enter the courtyard of the high priest - also note there is no mention of a girl doorkeeper. Also although Mark doesn't say Peter was the one who struck off Malchus' ear how come if it was that Peter would sit with the guards of the high priest v54 if one of the servants of the high priest had had an ear cut off. Wouldn't the guards have been at the arrest of Jesus or be talking with some who had been there - such as Malchus.
   Quite funny to look at Mark 14v56, " Many testified falsely against Jesus, but their statements did not agree "

Jesus never existed

 Richard Dawkins, " The God Delusion " p122, " It is even possible to mount a serious, though not widely supported, historical case that Jesus never lived at all, as has been done by, among others, Prof G.A Wells of the University of London in a number of books including, " Did Jesus exist ?"
    I think there is something to be said in the C.S. Lewis idea~ ' That if Jesus is not the Saviour & Son of God as claimed then the story is in large part lies and lunacy ' [ only he said Jesus is either Liar, Lunatic or Lord ].
    There are advantages to saying Jesus never existed. This line avoids giving succour to Islam. Islam likes to down grade Jesus to just a prophet like their Coran says. I like to think Jesus never existed, it means I am in disagreement with the Coran. . There is not enough firm evidence to warrant anything else.
  How come none of the women folk is recorded as retaining some of Jesus clothing ? His mother isn't said to have given his childhood clothes to anyone. None tried to ask for or buy the undergarment mentioned at John 19v23. Why did no one try to keep the ' original ' cross of Christ ? What about his carpenter tools ? Not even a lock of hair ? No sculpture of his head ? What about the scrolls of Scripture he owned ?
  For examples of events from O.T. rewritten as miracles of Jesus compare Elisha  feeding of a hundred with 20 loaves of barley bread with some left over in 2 Kings 4v42-44 Vs Jesus feeds 5000 in  Matt 14v13
  Or Elisha brings the Shunammite woman's son back to life in 2 Kings 4v8-36 Vs Jesus raising Lazarus in John 11v38-43
  But then compare Elijah's magic refilling oil jar trick of 1 Kings 17v16 to Elisha doing the same trick in 2 Kings 4v3. These old writers had a limited imagination. Why didn't that oil jar keep refilling eternally, it could have made the owners the most wealthy people on Earth ?
    If Jesus had super-human ability to recognize the truth then he would have said, " Plant & animal life evolved by natural selection. Culture evolves, study all the stories of religion and you will see how people have kept adding to and warping earlier tales. Look at all human technology and see how it has advanced in design, little by little. "

We cultivate the fields and precision drill

We cultivate the fields and precision drill
The good wheat in the land
apply fertiliser and herbicide
to give it a helping hand
It needs the cold of winter
summer warmth to swell the grain
the fungicide and the sunshine
and soft refreshing rain

All foods of the world around us

became available after the Columbian Exchange

Then thank our ancestors, O thank ingenuity 

That we live after the 16th Century

Evolution is the maker

Of all things near and far

It paints the wayside flowers

It shapes the mammals &  birds

The winds and waves are governed

By the sun and moon

And by our smart endeavour, to our children

We give our daily bread

All foods of the world around us

became available after the Columbian Exchange

Then thank inquisitiveness, O thank ingenuity 

That we live after the 16th Century

We thank Thee, o our forefathers

For all foods delicious and good

from New World and from Old World

Giving life, health and good mood

These gifts have we to offer

To all the word these gifts impart

And that which we desirest

Are humble, thankful hearts

IT'S PIZZA JIM BUT NOT AS WE KNOW IT

The Old World Gods would not have been able to offer their followers pizza as it requires tomatoes which are native to the Americas  The Old World Gods failed to predict the existence of the New World or its food crops such as potatoes, squash, green beans, sweet corn, avocado, cocoa, turkey, peanuts, vanilla, papaya, pineapple, sweet & chili peppers, coca leaves to make coca-cola, large strawberries, ( tobacco is of doubtful benefit but still a reminder of the Great America's ) McLevi's was more likely to offer unleavened bread with a sprinkling of locusts & pickled snake. Acts 10v12 St Peter's table cloth does not include an image of a turkey or even specifically pork, though I expect that is implied but does include reptiles, no wonder Peter wasn't tempted to partake

Old Macdonald had a windfarm

Old MacDonald had a successful economy EIEIO
But his windfarms led to its ruin ERoEI
With subsidies here and lack of dispatchable power there
Here some hype, there some spin, everywhere wind turbines
Old MacDonald had a disaster on his hands EIEIO

Old MacDonald had an animal farm ERoEI
And in Westminister some MPs had their snouts in the trough ERoEI
With half truths here and some spin there,
Here some hype, there some spin, generous subsidies everywhere
A moo moo here, a moo moo there, here a moo, there a moo, everywhere a moo moo
Old MacDonald had a ponzi scheme  on his hands EIEIO

Old MacDonald had a windfarm ERoEI
And the electricity supply was running out of luck ERoEI
With subsidies here and  power cuts there
Here some hype, there some spin, everywhere wind turbines lying still
A quack quack here, an oink oink there, here a moo there a moo ,everywhere windfarms lying still, power cuts here , black outs there, many regrets everywhere
Old MacDonald had a disaster on his hands EIEIO

Old MacDonald had reliable nuclear power stations ERoEI
But he closed them down along with the coal power ones  EIEIO
With a lack of dispatchable power here and power cuts there
Here some hype, there some spin, everywhere wind turbines lying becalmed
A neigh, neigh here, a quack quack there, here an oink there an oink, everywhere a moo, moo
power cuts here, black outs there, wind turbines a source of great despair
A grunt grunt  here and a quack quack there, here a neigh there a neigh everywhere a moo moo
Old MacDonald had a disaster on his hands EIEIO

See

KIDS MUSIC-Old MacDonald Had A Farm

Chancey H

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R7ng1b9KZE

Oh Greatly evolving God, Updateable and teachable, worthy are you of praise

When choosing a God, if there is no real cosmic one to be found, then one really ought to at least choose one which is evolvable. If " God " is defined as being the set of ideas currently viewed as being the best structure for society to operate by or the understanding of the world about us which is closest to reality then you would expect that " God " should evolve as new data comes in.

We should have expected the psalms to sing praises to the God who is ever evolving, adapting, learning, updateable, adjusting previous conduct manuals to incorporate new ideas which might enhance the lot of his subjects on Earth.
You would expect by now that Allah would be shouting at its followers, " Switch to English common law, shariah isn't fit for the 21st century, it contains arbitrary pointless taboos and unnecessarily severe penalties "

Where are there examples of self analysis, self criticism in the scriptures? Wouldn't a God have tried out policies on his new found humanity, observed how they worked out then changed the bits that were having a negative effect. FEEDBACK ?

Sadly Psalm 102v27, " You remain the same "
Malachi 3v6, " I the lord do not change " [ Except he changed between O.T. & N.T. ]
Hebrews13v 8, "J.C is the same yesterday, today, and forever."

So I expect that after hearing exactly the same joke in heaven for the millionth time the saved will be like, " Grief, this is hellish, God you are boring the socks off me "

Old World religions failed to predict existence of Tobacco or its effects

Well done Ayaan Hirsi Ali for giving a civilized & detailed critique of Islam & Koran

One of Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s best points IMO was at 1:17:00 where she says ~ we are dealing with documents like the Koran which were written a long time ago, in the 7th century, .. we are talking about the morality of the 7th century. These documents should be in museums but today it is disturbing that there are so many Moslems who use the Koran like a drivers manual.

Like John Loftus says; these are writings from a superstitious, pre-scientific age.

The ability of the shamans of the the Abrahamic religions to predict things is more pathetic than prophetic

Not only did Islam fail to predict the existence of the Americas but it also failed to predict the existence of tobacco, even after tobacco was brought to the Old World Islam failed to give a correct critique of the effect of tobacco smoke on humans. They failed to have a revelation that nicotine, though addictive, causes little harm in comparison to the smoke which causes cancer etc. Added to this failure was the inability of Allah to miraculously free people from nicotine addiction or to provide a method of quitting. It was not Islam which came up with E-cigarettes or personal vaporizers. Instead it was the Chinese who invented the PV and scientists who gathered data & did experiments to almost fully explain the workings of tobacco smoke and ways to escape the addiction to it.

The books of John W. Loftus are like the Personal Vaporizer which allow people to enjoy the leaves of scripture without getting addicted to its drug or getting cancer from its holy smoke. They also do a lot to blow away the religious smoke screen of obfuscation.

For a detailed explanation of the effects of smoking & studies on attempts to quit smoking & on the pros and cons of E-cigarettes see Youtube video by Dr Lynne Dawkins of University of East London, "Electronic cigarettes: What we know so far "

This is 21st century thought on the subject. It doesn't order anyone about what to do but just offers an impartial understanding on the subject so that people can make a free & informed choice.

See links in wikipedia on tobacco

Sir Walter Raleigh is credited with taking the first "Virginia" tobacco to Europe, referring to it as tobah as early as 1578. In 1595 Anthony Chute published Tabaco, which repeated earlier arguments about the benefits of the plant and emphasised the health-giving properties of pipe-smoking.

The importation of tobacco into Europe was not without resistance and controversy in the 17th century. Stuart King James I wrote a famous polemic titled A Counterblaste to Tobacco in 1604, in which the king denounced tobacco use as "[a] custome lothsome to the eye, hatefull to the Nose, harmefull to the braine, dangerous to the Lungs, and in the blacke stinking fume thereof, neerest resembling the horrible Stigian smoke of the pit that is bottomelesse."

The Styx (/stɪks/; Ancient Greek: Στύξ [stýkʰs], "Hate, Detest") is a river in Greek mythology that formed the boundary between Earth and the Underworld (the domain usually called Hades, which is also the name of its ruler). {SEE Semele _ perished, consumed in lightning-ignited flame - what happens when you smoke ? But some PVs have exploded in people's faces too.}

Tobacco first arrived in the Ottoman Empire in the late 16th century, where it attracted the attention of doctors and became a commonly prescribed medicine for many ailments. Although tobacco was initially prescribed as medicine, further study led to claims that smoking caused dizziness, fatigue, dulling of the senses, and a foul taste/odour in the mouth.

Sultan Murad IV banned smoking in the Ottoman Empire in 1633, and the offense was punishable by death. When the ban was lifted by his successor, Ibrahim the Mad, it was instead taxed. In 1682, Damascene jurist Abd al-Ghani al-Nabulsi declared: “Tobacco has now become extremely famous in all the countries of Islam ... People of all kinds have used it and devoted themselves to it ... I have even seen young children of about five years applying themselves to it.” In 1750, a Damascene townsmen observed “a number of women greater than the men, sitting along the bank of the Barada River. They were eating and drinking, and drinking coffee and smoking tobacco just as the men were doing. "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...